Community Meeting regarding Amedeo Garden Court Tues Nov. 15th

Permalink Reply by Natalie on November 13, 2011 at 6:15pm

This redevelopment idea is a TERRIBLE idea. It is the city attempting to encourage gentrification and class cleansing. Amedeo Gardens provides much needed low cost and good quality housing to hundreds of families and citizens and the city's idea is to bulldoze it to make way for yet more oppressive, high rise condos for young well-off professionals who could not care less about the community. Disgusting. I plan to be there Tuesday night.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Chomik on February 5, 2012 at 12:20pm

Natalie's points are right on the mark.

The reasons many residents of condos who couldn't care less about the community are:

1) about 60% of condos are purchased by "investors" who just care about making a big profit (and who will rent out to anyone just for cash flow);

2) many live-in condo buyers are "first-timers" who only want to make a profit and move on as soon as possible. These people also have no time for community as they are far too busy with work and paying for their little concrete box;

3) condo developments are generally totally isolated and not integrated into communities by virtue of their physical structure - hardly conducive to contributing to a community. Most residents have no connection to the community where their condo is, which is why they typically drive out of the area to do things;

4) this is all about building waterfront condos with "million-dollar" views so that some developer can make even more outrageous profits - with no consoderation how a community will be adversely affected.

At the public meeting, most residents of Amedo Garden Court who attended had no idea the property is to be redeveloped - which shows how much "care" for the community developers have.

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Permalink Reply by Jen on November 14, 2011 at 3:22pm

Wow--I find it a little harsh to blanket "young professionals"/condo owners as people "who could not care less about the community". A sense of community and pride of ownership goes hand in hand with becoming a home owner--condo owners included. They have a vested interest in their community. I think that it is positive to express your opinion and it's great that you are participating in this event but I'm not sure stereotyping young professionals or condo owners for that matter will get you the respect to back an argument. We should try to be objective and stick to hard facts about the proposed project and I definitely don't recall reading that current tenants would be uprooted to homelessness and their homes would be bulldozed. I guess we will have to wait for more information about the project at the meeting as in these early stages, I don't think anyone has all the facts- myself included. Is the developer invited/attending to answer all of our questions/concerns?

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Permalink Reply by Paul Chomik on February 5, 2012 at 12:21pm

Natalie had the facts, and presented them rather concisely.

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Permalink Reply by Aaron G on November 14, 2011 at 4:11pm

I will also be there. I believe there is middle ground to be
found here. You can maintain the same level of low cost housing and even add
more with the right development. Look at the buildings on 10th St. and look at
Regent Park. Both are great mixed use developments.

While there is some excellent retail along Lakeshore in
Mimico we can use more. The lack of retail is often cited by people and in
articles as a drawback of the area. Say what you will we have enough hair
salons, nail salons, dollar stores and cheque cashing places. We have some
great cafes, restaurants and stores but still need more. We also need some more
street life at night.

An injection of new people with disposable income could only
help the situation. It's not fair to paint every person who buys a condo as someone
who doesn't care about the community they live in. I know a couple that were
renting temporarily in Mimico and are now going to buy a home. The future is
high rise and population density. The best thing to do is try to have some sort
of control on how an area is developed not try to stop it out right. Try to
push for more Co-ops and affordable housing mixed with condos. Amedeo Gardens
is closed off from the community and aside from the gardens and historical
buildings which are interesting is quite honestly ugly. It also cuts off
waterfront access for the whole neighborhood.

Initially it will be hard on the existing tenants to be
uprooted but with advanced warning, options for temporary housing with expenses
paid and proper assistance this will be a positive for them in the long run. Like
the flyer says change is coming to Mimico. It’s up to us to steer it in the
right direction.

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Permalink Reply by Natalie on November 14, 2011 at 5:22pm

Hello Jen, Aaron, I must say it's actually pretty flippant to have that attitude towards tennants, how would you feel, for example, if your received a notice announcing your eviction and that your home is now scheduled for expropriation and redevelopment? What precisely do you think will happen to the current residents, they will be evicted. You are dreaming if you actually believe that a developer will assist and pay for the expenses of current tenants. You call Amedeo ugly?? Have you seen some of the new state prison inspired condos that are popping up along Lake Shore West? Amedeo gardens is not ugly at all, they have a waiting list...the tennants take pride in their residence, there are many gardens and gardeners that reside there.

I'd like to know how 2 gigantic condo developments ensure access to the waterfront there exactly?? And as far as mixed income and co-op housing, sure, it would be ideal if mixed income and co-op housing could be incorporated Aaron, it is a rarity for a faceless corporate developer to listen to the community, they lie and give very little back to communities. It's not in any developers or governments best interest to consider affordable housing, they can and will charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for a cube of air and higher property taxes for a condo, or condo-townhouse. Density is the future in some areas, sure, have you checked out the condo listings on MLS there are countless condominums for sale, density creates less demand, this area will be in less demand with hundreds and hundreds of new condos for sale.

I'd like to also point out that Amedeo Gardens has owners and after all they might have an opinion on all this re-development. Hopefully we will find out more tomorrow.

Jen, the attitude that property owners are the only people that show pride in their residence is profoundly elitist, and false and in my opinion shows some contempt and prejudice against tennants, it suits your purpose to say those things. The fact remains; what gives us the moral right to uproot an entire community in the name of change.

The waterfront is accessible all over the lake shore, from toronto, to humber bay and along the boardwalk at Amos waites & Mimico Linear Park (by Birds n' beans) ,via Norris crescent, then, there are many parks from 3rd street and over all the way to Missisauga.... so Aaron, as far as your comments regarding the community not having access to the waterfront, there is plenty. Really, the only areas that do not allow for access are where there are expensive waterfront properties along parts of Lake Shore, Lake Shore Dr. and Lake Promenade. Aaron, If your argument holds, the city should really look into expropriating more prime waterfront property for public access. Don't you think?

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Permalink Reply by Paul Chomik on February 5, 2012 at 12:33pm

10th St. development on the Goodyear site a "great mixed-use" development?

The crime wave and devastation of local businesses that occurred in the summer of 1993 when the complex was opened was the worst thing that could have happened to the community (thank Daniels developers).

The retail strip has never recovered, and many businesses do not last long (unlike when we had local jobs here).

Mimico had good retail until the condos started getting built from its eastern border in the late 1980s.

Over 20 years of high-density condo development east from Mimico has done nothing to revitalize mainstreet retail in Mimico. That is fact.

So where are all the existing 10,000 condo-dwellers from the Motel Strip contributing to the community?

As attributed to Albert Einstein, the definition of, 'Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result'.

With over 20 years of proof, doing more of the same type of development will have the same result - not something miraculous and different. Common sense, people.

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Klochek on November 14, 2011 at 8:14pm

"I definitely don't recall reading that current tenants would be uprooted to homelessness and their homes would be bulldozed."

Um, this may be a silly question, but how did you think the developers were going to build a condo where Amodeo Garden is without bulldozing it?

Regarding the owners vs. tenants comments, the "owners" don't actually own the property. The bank that provides the mortgage does, as "owners" in the US have been discovering over the past few years.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Chomik on February 5, 2012 at 12:34pm

Good, rational comments.

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Permalink Reply by Jen on November 15, 2011 at 4:56am

I agree Aaron- change isn't always bad and simply resisting change for no real reason can leave our community behind more forward thinking communities. We have to move forward with open minds together and united. The way that I see it, if your community is not growing within a city like Toronto which is currently undergoing so much growth than your community is probably dying.

I absolutely agree 100% that the city needs low cost and good quality housing and this new development might improve the overall quality housing in these buildings. I do recall a marijuana grow-op perhaps being busted in one of those buildings a couple of summers ago which certainly isn't the healthiest scenario for indoor air quality. The tenants in this building are not going to be treated differently than what is lawful and reasonable. If they are provided with ample notice and if they are assisted by the developer with moving to temporary housing while construction is underway and have a reasonable alternative for living before being assisted with the move back into their brand new home- I'm not sure that sounds so terrible. If they were not notified in advance and assisted with the changes underway and their homes were bulldozed, leaving them homeless-- then that is a completely different situation but there are laws that would not allow that to happen.

Natalie, like I said when writing it, my comment regarding condo owners caring about their community was in simply in response to your comment that they "could not care less about the community"; i dunno but twisting my response into something else as "my elitist comment" makes me question what other information about this project has perhaps been misconstrued. In no way am I "prejudiced against tenants" and I never suggested that "tenants do not take pride in their property". I simply replied to the previous snarky comment in which you stereotyped condo owners. If you are trying to start a debate than you are trying to do so with the wrong person. Maybe you could have reworded your comment for the sake of many prospective condo owners coming to our community in the near future. Not the typical warm welcome that I have experienced since calling our community home.

The building rendering in that meeting link looks like big scary hideous white buildings but we live in an artsy community full of creative minds and I'm sure that many can envision beautiful architecture in these buildings with even more beautiful gardens and lake access that could transform this bland area of the lakeshore something very special. Perhaps we can even preserve the historical/garden feel of the area in the architecture? Independent of the gardens, the current buildings themselves lack any lustre, character or interest in my opinion as well and we can't see the lake which is the showpiece of our community. An opportunity exists to highlight the existing gardens with new building's architecture as well as potential to showcase our beautiful lake and provide more access to the community. Aaron is right in saying it is up to us to drive the bus rather than be passengers and have it done right. I have found photos of 2 condos that I thought that I would share; 1 with a bit of a garden feel with terraces, green space and greenery on the building and the other with a historical train station feel for inspiration. I chose to dig these up because the historical looking condo is going to be 10 mins west in Longbranch and the other green verson is going to be 10 mins east in High Park.... they are very close to home and therefore well within the endless possibilitites for this building, and definitely don't feel like any "state prison" to me. It can be done right- it's up to us to steer it in the right direction.

Please don't forget that along with rent prices, condo prices have gone up astronomically... and there is no legislation controlling that for the condo folks. If they can't afford condos in the downtown core (which many cannot) where are they supposed to go? Just like renters, and just like anyone-- they go where they like and can afford. Everyone is feeling the pinch of living in our very expensive city.

If anyone has doubts about our future condos to coexisting very harmoniously in our community, you should take a walk along Queens Quay West to Stadium Rd. on the downtown waterfront to see how successfully this can be done. Just because condos moved in there, it does not mean renters are are being pushed out. The geared to income housing, condos, rentals, seniors residences and co ops are all big part of that vibrant waterfront community that now has many shops and restaurants to support it. Density in that area did not reduce demand at all but rather the opposite- after all there is only one lakefront in our huge metropolis. I don't see many variables that would make it any different in our community by the lake.

Mixed residential seems fair to me and the argument against more density makes no sense to me. I hope for more density to come.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Chomik on February 5, 2012 at 1:14pm

The building rendering you refer to as "scary hideous" is in fact, what the developer has proposed in their filing with the City of Toronto.

Developers will build to the lowest standard of quality, just to maximize profits. Look up "disposable buildings" or "throwaway buildings" (the CBC did a good expose on them). Today, buildings are typically built for a 30-year lifespan.

Also look up "NIGHTMARE AT MARINA DEL REY". Talk about a condo owner's nightmare. The "carefree" condo lifestyle. Right.

The fact that the current Amedeo Garden Court buildings "lack any lustre" is what makes them great - they just blend into the background (or are obscured by trees) and do not overpower the sky (or block it out).

As for the Watermark proposal in Long Branch, members of the Design Review panel called it a "cheap replica" of the Gladstone Hotel, which had no relevance to the history of Long Branch. Long Branch being based on cottage country originally, but mostly being 1940s building style. Panel members also said they wanted to see better "quality" construction and materials, because it appears that low standards are proposed.

All this notwithstanding that the zoning only allows a maximum height of 6 stories and the developer is building 7 (apparently without re-zoning).

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Permalink Reply by Mark on November 15, 2011 at 1:52pm

From the OPA application of the developer, it sounds like they have a reasonable approach with regards to assisting the existing tenants of Amedeo Gardens. Also, the proposed development would maintain the same number of affordable rental units:

Rental Housing

• A commitment to replacing all 396 existing rental housing units on-site (1 : 1 replacement)

• Maintaining the existing unit mix (87% bachelor and I bedrooms)

•	Maintaining the existing rents (subject to existing city and provincial policy) -as of 2011 rent rolls and CMHC average rents - 80% ofthe existing unit rents are considered "affordable", 19% are "mid-range", and 1% "high-end".
•	Replacing a substantial amount of the rental housing in the first development phase in one of two, 8–l0 storey buildings, contemporary in design and amenities, at the site's entry on Lake Shore Boulevard
•	Developing a tenant communication. mitigation and relocation strategy early in the process working closely with the City and existing residents well in advance official approvals and demolition
•	Compliance with existing City and Provincial rental housing policy and programs

Obviously the current tenants would have to move during demolition and construction, which is a large disruption to their lives. But you have to remember that ultimately it is the property owner's right to do with the land what they please (within the rule of law of course). As Jen has said, as long as there is a generous amount of advance notice, and other assistance, and everything is done by the rules, then I don't see a problem.

I'm no shill for the owner/developer though. While I support, in general, the redevelopment of these buildings, I do have concerns about the proposed height (44 stories!) of some of the new towers, and about the preservation of historical structures. Both are issues that I think we need to keep an eye on. But we can also treat this as an opportunity to enhance the visibility and usefulness of the historical structures. Before I heard about this development, I never even knew they existed within the walls of Amedeo Garden Court, and I've been walking past the place for 5 years.

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Community Meeting regarding Amedeo Garden Court Tues Nov. 15th

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